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    PQ | Features | Mailbag | Apr 28, 2000

PQ Mailbag

I Ran Out Of Quotes

I know all of you readers out there were looking forward to my mind-expanding quotes at the beginning of articles, but frankly, I ran out of good ones. If you've got any good ones, send them my way. But enough with introductions and all that snazz, here's the no-nonsense (well maybe just a little nonsense) PQ Mailbag!

Oh Hell No..

Resident loudmouth (I get a few more free shots) Lee'Mon tore a strip of whiny gamers in his latest editorial, "'Missin' Pack'? I Think Not!". Information was leaked and people bitched about it. Lee bitched back, and it appears he did more than his share of poo-stirring, because we got a ton of feedback. Check some of it out!

From: Jackson, David
Subject: Excellent Article

Lee'Mon made some outstanding points. That was a great article and I enjoyed reading it. Previous to this article I knew nothing about the new Mission Pack but I'm going to go with a "In Id I Trust" attitude. They have never let me down before. I would think that more people would have that attitude since they obviously care enough about the game to create mods, follow your outstanding website, and/or feel that they are a member of a "community" of people with a single interest.

I especially liked his points about the "You stole my mod" perspective. If you go around and carefully check out the majority of game companies you will find very few who let their customers get as close to the creation of the game as Id does. I don't do mods, skins, or models though I use them daily and appreciate the work that goes into them. I feel like we have these because Id made the game and Id supports their fans in adding to and enhancing the game. Where is the gratitude and confidence in the quality of their products now? The people needed a reality check and I think you did it very well.


David Jackson

Hellchick: That's definitely a good point. Epic only recently started shmoozing up the community with UT, whereas id's been doing it for a while now. I do have to admit that it's interesting to watch how Epic is changing the way a game company interacts with its audience.

From: Dustin Smart
Subject: "Missin' Pack"

Kudos to Lee'Mon...
After I saw what was leaked about the upcoming mission pack the first thought that went through my mind was "That looks sweet, I wonder what else they've got up their sleeves." Certainly NOT "That's IT?? That's all they're putting in it! What a waste of my time!!" I simply can't understand how you could possibly condemn a product that you know so little about. I agree that it would be like condemning the IHV of Quake 3 and saying the game is crap when it's still (say it with me) i n c o m p l e t e.

I have friends that play Quake 3 upwards of 6 hours a day and constantly complain about how id ripped them off by not giving them their money's worth. Which makes me want to beat the living hell out of their hypocritical asses. If you were so "ripped off" how is it that you manage to log so much time into that game? What's the reasoning behind that?

My thoughts on the mission pack are that when it comes out, barring a nuclear winter, I'll undoubtedly be plunking down the cash for it. If they're concentrating on teamplay this time around, so be it. Maybe it'll get people that are playing other more "strategic" games more interested in Quake 3. I'm all for it. id hasn't let me down yet and I give them credit for trying something they haven't done before. Granted, DM rocks...and rocks hard, but every now and again a little teamwork would be great. But given the current state of Quake 3 team games online (ie: DM FFA with a flag), we could do for a different flavor of id's secret recipe for fun. Who knows, the bitchers, moaners and complainers may end up being the biggest proponents of the mission pack.

And as for all the players, mod makers and llamas bitching that this is indeed the "missin pack" to what should have been in Quake 3 in the first place...why have you been playing Quake 3 all this time then?? If it was such an "incomplete" and "unfinished" game, why didn't you devote your precious time, money and effort elsewhere and shut up already. God only knows the community could do with fewer spoiled brats that cry wolf anytime something new comes down the pipe from id

Basically. If you're going to bitch, do us the smallest favor and actually wait until you actually have it in your hot little hands and have actually p l a y e d the mission pack before giving us your almighty opinion...because until then, your text is wasted space and you're wasting our time.

Thanks Lee'Mon for the great article, someone still has some sense.


Hellchick: There's a lot of that sentiment, I've noticed. "I'll buy it because it's from id, but I don't have to like it!" Well, there's a real simple way to express your discontent with the game: don't buy the damn thing. It's not exactly rocket science, guys.

From: Tom Iddings
Subject: Leemon's Editorial

Uhhh, geez... while i entirely agree with Lee'Mon's views here, i noticed that toward the end of this, it became more "I fucking hate these moron fans blah blah blah". Which I do too. So maybe he's not so off-target. But there are plenty of intelligent people, also, even if they seem to be outnumbered 50:1 by morons. But that's not the point. The morons are just stupid, so "ashamed to be associated with the community" is in fact not necessarily such a bad statement. But my point is that Lee'Mon came off as very disgruntled.

All right, I want to interrupt this and ask everyone a question: Is there a way, short of not sending this, that I can come off not looking like a dumbass?

Well, fuck the first paragraph. What I mean to say is that Lee'Mon hit the nail right on the head, and I hate dumbasses also, but perhaps he shouldn't be "ashamed about the whole community" and more "irritated by the dumbasses".


Hellchick: Hey, being disgruntled has its merits. You get a discount at Al's Gun and Bait Store, for instance. Buy one semi-automatic, get the second free.

From: Jerry Spivey
Subject: mission pack rant by Lee'mon

Hey Lee'Mon,

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. However, I can't say that I am up on the local rants that users have put up of late. Why? Because I started taking the advice that you gave again in your article. In essence, you don't like reading what people are saying? Stop reading. After all the rants and complaining and whining and bitchin regarding Quake 2 I felt enough was enough. I'll make my own opinions, gathered from experience and from lucid and well thought reviews from the press and web pages. I don't need to read some 12 year old llama's whines, hidden behind an anonymous handle, to form my own opinions.

I guess I'm saying any attempts on your part to reason with this crowd (which you've already mentioned is hopeless) will be in vain and only rile them up for round two of complaints. I suggest that you stop shouting out the window, take a step back, and then close out the noise. I guarantee your headache will go away. I'm sure most of the intelligent community understands id's motivations and will make their own judgements on release of the pack. I think your only hearing the loud, stupid, ignorant minority.

But that's just me talking...

Kid Kevorkian

From: kenneth toft
Subject: re: "Missin' Pack"? I Think Not!

Right On Lee'mon,

I am glad that Id is coming out with a new pack. I can't wait for any information I can get. But if I find out anything, I know that until I have the software on my hard drive, I'm not really going to know what the deal is. Id will provide. And they have yet to release something that doesn't rock my world.

I think that the deterioration of the community recently has been due to a number of factors. The Quake community has been flooded by the mainstream who would not know about it if it weren't for the negative press that Doom has been receiving (due to the shootings). Some people think that they can whine their way into getting what they want (hehe look at me whining now).

I think that its about time the world stood up and took notice of the great work that id has been doing all thewse years. I just wish it wasn't because of the bad press. I am going off the point here so I'll cut it short.

The whiners (I suspect) are the nouveau quake crowd. They want to play unreal or some other game but they don't want to make it themselves (so they bitch). They are quick to judge because thought takes time.

I think I'm done wasting your time now. Thanks for reading. Keep up the great work Lee'mon and all the folks at PQ. This is my first email but probably my thousanth visit (at least).


Hellchick: I think a lot of it also has to do with the expectations that the community has placed on id. Let's face it: by virtue of their own work, they've created a monster out of the community. This isn't a bad thing, it just means that many people have very high expectations for their favorite game company.

From: Hickupz
Subject: Leemon'S Editorial: ID Software and the mission pack

First of all I want to state that I'm a product of the Half-Life Community and actually just laid my hands onto Quake ]I[ because of Q3F. Don't take me for a newbie though because I have been out to map, frag and die since the good old days of Doom, getting on my way through the Quake series untill I got my hands on the Q3 Test.

Obviously, the Q3Test MIGHT be seen as a trial to perfect deathmatch and the lacking CTF mode in Q3T is surely the cause for the poor teamplay performance in Q3A. For me, Q3 has always been THE DM game, as well as HL can be seen as THE SP game. Unreal Tournament, meanwhile, set it's feet into the multplayer zone with the same intentions as Quake 3 did. In fact, it can be seen as a close reproduction of the Q3 idea even though its weapons and game modes make it unique enough to prevent seeing it as a clone.It even released something quite comparable to a mission pack a while ago with one slight difference: It was free!

That was the prelude, here comes the bitching:

The mission pack and the resulting conflict makes me wonder about the gaming community AS WELL as the attitude of Planet Quake and ID Software. I think taking money for a mission pack with the aim to add something the original Q3 wasn't successful at doing is not fair. It's the same as taking money for Valve's TFC Add-On for HL. As for my view of things, ID (or / and Activision) did never go into this project with the aim to actually make up for Q3's teamplay failure, but to make money off it. Since the release of Q3A we never really received anything from them except for the endless point-releases and a couply of CTF maps. Instead, all we got was the software and the necessary fixes and ID in return got lots of cash. This may be seen as normal and good, we live in a capitalist world after all, but then: why do all the others care more about it? Valve software can be seen as THE example for this: They successfully work together with their community, off course also only with the aim to drag talent from it and establish a crowd which also buys TF2 and HL2, but at least we (the gamers, mod-makers, etc.) got something out of it! With Q3 it's much harder: As said: we received the software and fixes, but were left on our own. While not having an impact on the community's growth since it's so massive it gives people the right to bitch about things. Even Microsoft sent out small goodies for their products! ID instead gives us a mission pack to buy with the attachment "Buy this, it will cure our teamplay disease, make us richer and we have always been good to you". It is obvious that the Missionpack will indeed cure that disease, for ID is ID after all and they know how to make good software, but what really makes me angry is the fact that they plan on making cash out of it! The community says: Make it free to make up for the one-sideness of Q3A! I mean: Make it free to keep up the faith of the community in ID software! The people have turned into bitches, whiners and cheaters, true; even I discorvered that in time, but releasing a mission pack they get money for while complaining that the community is angry about it is not gonna make it better. People have to pay for it, so they DO have the right to bitch about it. If it were free they wouldn't->Do you get my point? Instead ID takes money for it and thereby, together with the played frustration turns this map into a punch in the face for us, "telling" us that without it, we would not be able to really play the game with good teamplay modes!

Well, you don't have to really worry about those $50 you send into it, I do, because I live in Germany with it's stupid violence laws and have to climb up a hard mountain to get it. Instead, you tell people they whine because they complain about something everybody else does for free but ID takes money for, because they know that people will have to buy the mission pack anyway (reminds me of Internet Explorer and Windows). I will have to buy the mission pack no matter what, because whatever the community will bitch, it will turn out great anyway, but even tho' I hate them for being so whiny and complaining they do have the right to do so because ID is bitching at us now, for something we will have to pay for?! Planetquake is even supporting that. While producing good stuff, you should wonder about what side you actually stand on: The one of the customer, or the one producer. Customer is the right word for us because that seems to be the way ID is treating us like right now...

Lots of weird stuff, not all of it making sense but I think it expresses my utter annoyance with ID's way to handle things


Hellchick: People only think that id has to release the mission pack for free because Epic decided to do it for their own. If Epic had bowed to the capitalist gods and charged for it, no one would be bitching. id has given us stuff - the release of the Q3Tools, for instance. The purpose of a company is to make money - you have to compensate the employees for the time they put into the game. I don't know anyone at Epic, so I can't say why they chose to release the add-on for free. I personally think that Epic saw a future goldmine in game community, a concept that really began with id's games. Now rather than just letting the community grow on its own, it's cultivating it so that they have a better consumer base in the future. Basically, it all boils down to capitalism, folks, regardless of whether an add-on is free or not.

From: Robert Parry-Cruwys
Subject: Lee'Man's "Missin'" Article

Well, mega-kudos to Lee'Man for finally attempting to shout down people's unwarranted screaming. As an older gamer I remember when customers had very little--actually, none--say in what games were produced. Someone had an idea, produced a product as well as they could, and just hoped that the public enjoyed it. Although I understand that now that the industry has grown so has the fan base. And with growth comes money-hoarding corporations who would could care less if some hacks crank out some shit budget software that people buy; the only way to cut down on this crap is through us, the fans, voicing our opinions.

But just like every other freedom in America, we've taken this one too far. It's all well and good to complain and petition and gripe and strive for change. But to whine endlessly about something that doesn't even totally exist even in beta form is obnoxious and completely pointless. How do you even know that your comment has any basis whatsoever? If you want to gripe at such an early stage, how about making constructive criticism or at least keeping scathing comments somewhat positive. Just saying, "That's gonna sucks, yeah!" Doesn't help anyone: Whoopy-fucking-do! You think it'll suck...and your logic is flawless there!! Say something and back it up.

id's managed to keep us happy with repeatedly quality products in a very glutted market and I won't be surprised if they do it again with this mission pack. Hell, their company is like a friend to all of us...and we don't bitch out our friends for no concrete reasons. Unless you don't want friends(which wouldn't surprise me with some Quake fans).

Lee'Man finally shouted out all of you whiny spoiled brats who complain for the sake of fucking complaining!! And for anyone who doesn't agree with him, think about why you don't. Come up with some concrete evidence as to why he's wrong, and then post/email/tell why in a calm fashion.

Every "d00dz, WTF is wrong with you. You's is stupid!" makes your case that much weaker and gives people the impression that all these games really are making us stupid, violent morons. So take some paxil and chill out, folks!

Rob Parry

Wow, a lot of feedback on this editorial, so kudos to Lee'Mon. I printed about a tenth of what we recieved, so thanks everyone, for being so vocal. We like knowing you love us. Anyways, on to the issue. I hate the concept of leaks. I don't like knowing what something's going to be without experiencing it myself. That's why I was so careful not to trash Daikatana until I played the demo. That's why I commend what 3D Realms is doing with Duke Nukem Forever. The more gamers can be held in suspense, the better their initial experience will be. If I hear leaked information, I take it with a grain of salt. Leaks are usually less than reputable to begin with. People who bitch about leaked information are stupid, honestly. If you're willing to raise a clamor about something you think might be true, you've got too much time on your hands. As far as the mission pack goes, I don't like teamplay, but I'll certainly be giving it a try. And playing the new levels in DM. :)

On Page 2: Flaming Gauntlet Feedback!

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