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    PQ | Features | Mailbag | June 16, 2000

PQ Mailbag

Ass Kick Mailbag!

Some of you have been noticing that the staple of your literary diets, the PQ Mailbag, has been floundering as of late. Well, that all changes right here, and right now. With a ton of feedback this week, we've got a Mailbag that's jam-packed full of great and inflammatory letters, which will prompt some outstanding comments from myself and my colleagues. So sit your ass down and get to reading!

Pro Mode ?= Bad

Pappy R won (or lost, depending on your point of view) the contest for the most catalystic editorial of the month. "Pro Mode: A Return to Quakeworld?" prompted a ton of readers to interject with their opinions, to Pappy,, and various message boards across the web. Unfortunately, a lot of people ignored Pappy's actual arguments, preferring to attack him personally, but there was also some great positive feedback, showing that yes, some people out there still have common sense.

From: Tyson, Scott
Subject: Pro Mode: A Return to Quakeworld?


You hit it right on the head. Pro Mode = Quakeworld. I'm an old timer, playing Quake since the very first demo hit the net. I agree with all of your points 100% accept the hit sounds. It would provide a bit better feedback to have different hit tones depending on the amount of damage inflicted. Aside from this I think Q3A is the best Quake engine yet. Q3A makes the game what it should be, He (or She) who shoots best wins (within reason, level knowlege/stratagy is a big key but that has always been a constant). This has been my own feelings about Quake since QW. I think turning Q3A into QW for Pro competitions would be a mistake. If it is a MOD that is played then so be it but not as the default DM play style. I think the bottom line is people are resistant to change . "You mean I can't camp the red armor, RL and Quad getting Llama kills? Q3A Blows!!!" Heh. now armor and weapon camping mean much less and weapon skill becomes key. :-)

Good article. I hope people listen. :-)

From: Ard Righ
Subject: Pro Mode article

Hello :o)

I noted the article on PQ about the Pro Mode.... and since it mentions some points I disagree with, I thought I'd send them in.

First of all, Pro Mode isn't aiming to be Quake World. Make that point rather clear. Everyone immediately assumes that because people change player physics, it's because it has to be QuakeWorld.

For a fact, the only mod I have seen that aims to be Quake in Quake 3, is Classic Quake Arena. Maybe you could write an article about how pointless that mod is ?

Changing the player physics in Pro Mode is all about speeding up the gameplay. Rather than walking everywhere, or running like an old woman with diapers in wet cement, some people like to feel like they're moving fast.

Having watched a number of different demos of VQ3 and CPM, it becomes quite obvious the difference in speed of which games are played. Makes for better spectating for everyone involved.

The footsteps are a rather moot point. In Quake and Q2, most competitive players spent their time bunny-hopping around the levels, and thus footsteps weren't much of a point, except when the player touched the ground to jump again.

Same goes with CPM. You can put footsteps in CPM, and all you would do is hear when people were touching the ground when they were bunny-hopping.

Removing footsteps also adds in speeding up gameplay. If you look at it the same way some people do... remove footsteps, people stop walking and start running. In the end, it all adds up to a faster game.

And the point that is made about level control seems rather curious. Professional gaming is all about control of a game. Players like to know that killing the other player will give them an advantage to keep going. Spawning shouldn't be an easy thing.

In the recent CPL Asia event, Fatality was killed by Blue after Blue respawned, and MG'd Fatality, and after which, Fatality never got back into the match. Blue's sole advantage of spawning with 125 health, and a weapon that was overly balanced meant Fatality's more powerful weapons counted for all of about nothing in that instance.

One of the other reasons that CPM is being made... giving weapons back the power they deserve. Rockets should kill a player with one direct hit. Players should be able to spawn rape. The MG shouldn't be able to kill a player with the RG or RL.

You can say you don't like CPM. You don't have to play CPM. But writing an article that is so obviously not researched about why CPM is being made, and calling it "Wanna be Quake World" just shows such ignorance that makes articles like this one such a waste of time.

You say there are "no valid reasons" for making CPM. In that respect, I don't see where you gave the opportunity to be offered valid reasons.

I'm sure some of what I've written could be called valid enough reasons to make CPM.

Ard Righ

From: DKRE
Subject: Pappy-R's childish rant on Pro-Mode

Has Pappy-R ever played 1on1? Makes me really wonder after reading his editorial. But before I address that let me point out that his source article (by a|citizen), is one persons words, and one persons point of view. If you asked ever person working on CPM what their justification for this or that you'll get different answers. Thus for Pappy-R to use specific keywords from the above mentioned article as reasons to tear down CPM is just pathetic. Pappy-R has probably read article and used it _not_ on it's validity (not to say a|citizen didn't have valid things to say), but on the fact the article obviously was against what Pappy-R personally feels about the mod. Furthermore everything within his editorial could easily have been written from half a dozen comments on

The unprofessionalism of Pappy-R is furthered in his immature way he conveys his dislike for CPM. Calling it "Wanna be Quake World", and other such things make him come off as 1 in a million morons that spam the gaming forums with there rants about this and that. But of course there is a rather profound difference here. Pappy-R has written his childish little rant on the largest commercial quake site on internet. What amazes me is that the most pathetic argument I've ever seen against CPM was actually repeated when he started off by going on an anti-pro rant, wherein he makes it pretty clear he is one of quite a few less than mature individuals whom find the word "pro" difficult (grow up). And this is from a professional? Who's the "pro"? : ) In any case how can Pappy-R say that the design team aren't more valid than your average gamer? These guys are some of best in the world and the only way to get to that level is alot of playing, probably alot more than the norm.

Lets get down to facts. Weapon switching is NOT instant. Read the release info. Bounce and shaft, has Pappy-R mastered this skill? That's what it would seem to say. In any case who has? It's a move which is based on luck and extreme skill, this isn't a worry for the would-be quaker (which you have to remember IS the audience of PlanetQuake). The first paragraph of the "Armor" rant shows Pappy-R's lack of experience, specifically "While armour collecting is deemed "tedious", collecting and controlling other aspects of the game aren't", if he doesn't understand a|citizen's point here then either he wrote it to sensationalize, or he just has far too little experience to know what he's talking about. The second paragraph is pretty pathetic. Arguing the point of FPS games and saying guns before armor is a new one. "If the above features in Quake III remain untouched, then it all works out for gameplay in my book", this statement says it all about Pappy-R's profound experience that he has drawn on. I most like the idea that Quake is all about offence. I'll remember that the next time I kill a camper.

As for the hit tones and footsteps, these are both a part of the CPM project that Pappy-R has either not known of (because his journalistic skills (research) are so good), or has just neglected to mention. Exciting gameplay for the spectators. After RazerCPL it was clear to the CPM team that exciting games were a large issue. Thus no footsteps. This stops any "sit and wait" tactics that often happen in 1on1 matches. Players standing still waiting for the footsteps. Put bluntly it speeds up the game. The hit tones are to enhance the impact of damaging hits--you _know_ when someone just got f***ed up. These are all good things for those of us who sat their waiting for QTV to come online during Razer. And from my personal experience is that it also makes the matches alot more exciting to play. Currently I'm competing in a local CPM tourney and I've been owned just on the basis of my lack of speed. This adds depth, along with most of the other changes which Pappy-R fails to see when he points out what "Quake multiplayer is about".

Congrats PQ for showing your oh-so ethical journalism to the world.


From: Boa
Subject: Pro Mod

Yes Pappy,

youīre absolutely right. PM shouldnīt be standard in tourneys. Why? Cause they should deal with the game like it is. I know there are a lot of high profile players supporting the mod (makavelli, revelation and others from abuse, clan sk from germany, some of the clan 9 guys) but there are also some against it (moonshine from K9, fatility, powerk). But why should some players change the game towards something they do like more? They got their skills from QW and now they are upset cause they canīt use some of them in Q3.

Now the point is if they want to be Q3 played on a professional level they should just act like pros, which means: play the game like it is. Train hard, get better, cause being a pro means you have to work hard. Those players say they miss the fun in Q3, so what? Being a pro is hard work most of the time. If they just want fun thatīs fine, they can play PM and have a lot of fun. But if they want to compete they have to deal with the game like it is (you donīt see reggie miller suggesting a 3 pointer should now be worth 5 points because he hits them so good and that would be more fun for him, do you?)

What i also donīt like about PM is the arrogance of its supporters. They wouldnīt discuss any of the points you mentioned with guys like me just because iīm a nobody to them. Iīve been around around since doom2, i just did not play in competitions, but perhaps i will soon, so beware ;-) now why should their opinions be more valid than mine ore any others? Cause they`re the pros? Bah...

[bOa], germany

From: RiO
Subject: Pro Mode Mod

I agree, on the whole, with what Pappy has said, but let's think about two things here:

1) Most of us aren't going to enter into competitive play, so it doesn't really concern us.

2) If the competitors in a competition want to play Pro Mode, that is their perogrative. Our opinions are irrelevant if that is what they want to do.

However, I do agree that Quake 3 competitions should be, at leat for the most part, the same as the Quake 3 Vanilla that we buy in stores.


From: benoit gauthier
Subject: The Pro Mode mod editorial

I have to agree with Pappy-R, bringing back Quake1 physics and gameplay doesn't make a better competition. I have questions for the Pro Mode people: what is the point of competition if you're controling all the weapons and armor, and your opponent is armed with the Gauntlet and the Machine Gun? Is the point of Quake to deny your opponents weapons and armor or is it to face that opponent and make sure you kill him before he kills you? I know a balance of the two has to be maintained, but the way I see it the Pro Mode mod will make for incredibly lopsided games, even with 2 players of equal skill. If I compete or watch a competition, I want to see games won by Sudden Death, not by humiliation, unless humiliation is deserved, which would prove the players were NOT of equal skill, and therefore the loser moves to the losers bracket. I watched the STX-Wombat vs RavenShadow demo yesterday and I couldn't believe my own eyes at Wombat's skill. But RavenShadow had all the weapons and armor he needed. Now picture the same game with the intended Pro Mode; Instead of 70 to -3, Wombat would probably have won 150 to -20, and to me that's a pretty boring game. There is ownage, and then there is ridiculousness.

From: Essobie
Subject: Pro Mode

I totally agree on all counts with Pappy on Pro-Mode... mostly because I too think that it's going to be a very entertaining mod, but in no way do I see it as a valid replacement for any competitive play.

Frankly I find the name of the mod a mysnomer in that you'd assume that "pros" would be able to compete well with whatever the most recent game had to offer without going to throwback "features" like no footsteps, instant weapon switching, or longer weapon respawn times.

I'd rather it be called something like... well, WQW sounded good.

If anything, the new lightning graphics in the mod are outstanding... you should download it and try it out just because of that. muhahaHAHAHA. :)


Geez, I don't know what to say. This is the most feedback we've recieved on an editorial in a while, so congrats, Pappy, I guess. :) I haven't played Challenge Pro Mode, so I can't really comment on the game itself. I can comment on the way the community fed back, though. I read through the comments to feedback here (obviously), the comments at Shugashack, and the comments at Challenge World (the home of CPM), and I must say that when the community turns to personal attacks to try to make its point against an editorial, it makes me sick. And this isn't just because they're attacking a PQ editorial. The lack of scruples displayed by some people is outrageous. I'm just glad that we have some great readers that decided to provide constructive criticism or support. Look for my own editorial on this sometime soon.

Pappy R: Well...Over all the community was overwhelmingly supportive on one issue. Quake III is Quake III and should be played as such. id Software couldn't get ALL the factors agreed on for changes to make everyone happy, so any other group has a big job accomplishing that. Now as for a Mod, I thought it was explained that I thought All Mods are cool for adding spice, and none should be stopped, hindered or deemed worthless in any way. Even those wanting change in Q3A for competition that responded to the Editorial, couldn't agree on specific changes. This was the point and the feedback proved it.

On Page 2: Die, Q&C, Die!

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