Lee'Mon: More from you as to whether or not you like the BFG!
Subject: rants n raves darling!
when i first played q3 online,i had a ping of 450ms,it was the map with the regen in the water,and you reached the BFG by a teleporter (i dont remember map names,but i will when i receive my dsl connection as i play jack q3 at the mo).i grabbed the BFG and spammed shots at everyone,(try aiming with a 450ms ping which fluctuate's like a whale's lung),receiving a fair few kills, this wasn't my first time playin q3 either,i was pretty hopeless at trying to predict shots.i felt pretty good about myself after getting a few kills at last.
then the flames started to appear (have you ever played Soldier of fortune?they have a sweet anti-spam thingy that only lets you send a certain amount of messages)
so my come-back to these messages was,ive got a 450ms ping you try playing with one!and then one of the SO-CALLED-L337-D00DZ grabbed a BFG himself and fragged me (with a BFG),so i went back to the BFG room were he was camping the BFG so i couldnt get it,oh but my ten-rockets-ofspammliness fragged him .
well hope you understand that i know i dont
(and answering your rants n raves it is a cheap weapon to use but each game has its "supergun")
Lee'Mon: I hear you there. I've been testing out a mod that puts the Quake2 BFG10K back into Q3A. After a few BFG-only duels, I have to say: Yes, it does take skill to use that weapon. The other person I fought against kept trying to hit me with the ball and/or lightning, while I used the blast damage and splash radius to kill him every time. Moreover, it was fun when we both had an equal chance at it. But I digress. If games didn't have big guns, where would the fun be?
Demonwench: Yelling insults at each other? Snort. THERE'S fun for ya...
Subject: BFG Rants and Raves
In my opinion the BFG is definitly a wimp's weapon, in multiplayer at least. In Doom and Quake 2 single player it did serve a useful purpose; make a mess of the baddies standing in your way :) However, I don't see any place for it in a multiplayer game. Why? Because it's just too powerful and doesn't require much skill to use. Sven made the point about the skill involved being to use it to get multiple frags quickly, and, frankly, thats bull. Thats like saying it takes skill to drop a nuke on a village of natives wielding spears. Similarly, I have to disagree with Love2Play's point that you at least have to aim with the Q3 BFG: yeah sure, you point the gun in the general direction of your opponent and keep 'fire' pressed. Wow, tough trick. Its still unfair, because there is absolutly no running away from a herd of BFG bolts heading in your direction, its just a rapid fire rocket launcher peppering the entire area you are in. It is a dishonourable weapon, your opponents don't get any chance to fight back. Haven't any of you BFG users ever felt like a big bully picking on the smaller kids in the playground? (kinda like when the USA, Britain and the other western nations stomped all over Iraq in the Gulf conflict, but i guess thats the topic of another discussion altogether => ) The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that it takes more skill to frag someone on an equal footing with you. I do like to take the feelings of my fellow players into consideration when I play and getting blasted into chunks when you have no time to react is just no fun at all. If something takes the fun out of playing then it has no place in the game, in my opinion. Also, I personally don't get any satisfaction from using the BFG ( I feel like a bully), I just know that I have a stupidly powerful weapon and I'm being a lazy SOB. Some people say that it has its place in the game because it helps you to recover from being 10 frags behind everyone else. That's also bull; if you are 10 frags behind everyone else its because you are crap and you should go away and practise. At least that way you can glean some kind of feeling of accomplishment from coming back and being faster, more alert and more accurate, instead of being lazy and going for the big gun. The players I respect the most are the ones who get one-hit rail kills one after another in quick succesion; yes, they are being bullies too, but they are SKILLFUL bullies whose level of play I can aspire to emulate. In short I don't believe the BFG is a satisfying weapon for either the attacker or the victim, and by using it you are being a lazy wuss :)
LONG LIVE THE RAILGUN!
p.s. sorry for the length of this opinion, its 4am here and I am liable to ramble on a lot when I'm tired :)
Lee'Mon: Umm, yeah, and the railgun is a crap weapon because all you have to do is put it right on the enemy and fire. Uh, huh... ;^)
Demonwench: Hey, now. You say it takes no skill to use the BFG? I've seen other players use the BFG and, granted, it is a powerful piece of equipment, but you can also get out of the way! It's like a plasma gun and I KNOW y'all can dodge that. Heck, I can dodge that! YOu don't need to feel like a bully. I hate bullies and I don't think that BFG users are bullies. And people know when they're crap, you don't need to rub their noses in it! That's MY job!
Subject: BFG Rant'n'Rave
Let's get the obvious out of the way first. I suck. I suck bad. My ISP is slower than that half-second in which you turn the corner and see the wrong end of a railgun. If I had a good connection, then I'd still suck. I'd have to change my name to "Gibblet Gravy". I am Newbie Eternal. I have no skill in FPS's.
(I do acknowledge that there are some players who enjoy nothing more than trash-talkin' and ruining people's fun by using BFGs. The following defence of BFG-users is not intended to represent them in anyway. I speak only on behalf of slower gamers.)
I still believe that you can make up for a lack of skills with strategy. So I heartily endorse the BFG, in all its incarnations. In Doom, it was a quick fix for a crowded room (single or multiplayer) where a RL or a PG would have only left you dead with one or two more frags to your name. I missed out on the Q1 scene, but when Q2 hit, I was quite a tough opponent with my favorite combination of weapons: Grenades and BFGs. I learned early on that my aim was pitiful, my wrist slow and inept, and my connection as fast as a dead slug (the slimy garden kind, not the depleted uranium ones). I was no good in a firefight with shotguns and chainguns. My kills were minimal with rockets and plasma guns, and that left me ground-aiming for splash damage all the time. My aim kept me from ever being a sniper or camper. I just couldn't hold my ground against a fast-moving target.
All this left me with one choice: If I couldn't shoot faster or better, I had to shoot smarter. And the BFG was my best bet, while covering other situations with nicely-arced grenades. I never, ever got bitched at for any BFG usage on any server I played. Maybe I just got lucky and missed all those players who cared, or maybe I still sucked that bad even with the BFG. The point is that the BFG is not meant for people who skitter around a map, blasting at each other like a car chase in a 70's cop show. It's for the people who can't do that. You learn to shoot where people can't get away, and that's what probably ticks off BFG-haters so much; a well-planned shot is inescapable.
When you can circle a map in 30 seconds and plug each sucker in the game at least once, you tend to get a heady feeling of invincibility. I know it hits some of you, I've read your chats. Relax, that's normal (considering the situation, anyway). So when someone shoots that G.B.O.D. at you in a room when you're too far from the doors, it really, really pisses you off, even if you do gib the bastard before you pop. It's hard not to step on egos when you've got them cornered.
In Q3A, it does play differently. Because of the new style of BFG, I now leave it be in favor of other weapons. I simply cannot use those high-speed projectile weapons well (which leaves me using grenades most of the time). But I still enjoy having it as a backup weapon, when the speedster gets too close I whip it out and knock them back a few feet. It's no longer my offence of choice, but I still like it. A lot.
I'll be openly honest. Strategy players more often than not end up low or last on the scores in FPS's. They just can't keep up with the hyperspeed of most players on these games. It's also because, in many cases, those that have the reflexes of a chihuahua on Ritalin can't stand being slowed down even for a moment by strat-players, and it results in accusations of camping, llama-ness, and cheating, and ultimately ends up with universal targetting of the poor, slow bastard. It really ruins the day for those less-than-super-fast players. But as others before me have said, it's in the game, and all the rules are laid out for everyone to see. If it's not your cup of blood, then find another server, but don't accuse the worse players of being a llama or of cheating. Sometimes even the crappy players like to gib a little now and then, any way we can.
Lee'Mon: Long-winded, but well-spoken. Bravo.
Demonwench: I applaud thee. You do make an eloquent argument for the BFG and for the newbie or the not-so-great players. Take heart and ignore all the spazzy, whiney, trash-talkin' piss'eads. They're not worth your time or trouble.
From: Meau O Unji
Subject: feedback for Rants and Raves
I must warn you, this is going to be long so sit comfortably.
First, I personally think of the BFG, in it's orginal and current form, more suited for singleplayer games instead of multiplayer. It's hella powerful, and can quickly up your frag count provided you run into a large enough group(s) of people.
Now I'm not the kind to be screaming about it when someone picks the gun up, but I do get a little PO'ed too. However, there are things you can do to make the BFG more tolerable in a map. If you don't want someone else using it, frag him, and make sure he doesn't get the gun again. If you want to get him back real good, frag him, grab HIS BFG and frag him with it, again, and again making sure he gibs everytime. The last thing you can do if you don't like it is just leave! No one is making you stay on that particular server with the BFG llama in it, so don't stay if you aren't enjoying yourself.
I'm also going to throw in some other stuff here relating to the current BFG. Maps. Someone has to make them, so people who make maps should place the weapon with a little more caution. It's all a part of good item placement. The gun shouldn't just sit there for all to grab. Put some obstacles in front of it, or make the person going for the gun completely vulnerable to an attack. The rail in the longest yard is a good example, it's the best gun for the map, so it's off in the middle of nowhere where someone who's a decent enough shot can easily frag who ever's going for the gun. Some maps are just plain NOT suited for the BFG, so don't put it in there if it's going to throw the play balance off.
Lastly, I'd like to add what I think the BFG should be instead of the rapidfire RL that it is now. I think the gun should fire much slower, say 2 seconds, at least, between each shot, with maybe a 0.5 or .75 second delay between the time you pull the trigger and the shot being fired. The speed of the BFG 'ball' is about right, maybe just a little slower. Upon impact, the ball should exploded into a green shpere about 1.75 or 2 times larger than the blast radius of a rocket. The spere should have two layers visible, the inner most one being powerful enough to kill (and gib) anyone inside instantly. The outside layer should cause at least 100 points of damage but nomore than about 125 with some severe knock back effect. And also, the gun should start with no more than 3 shots. This way, if you're good enough of a shot to time it right, anyone inside the inner sphere will die instantly, but doesn't guarantee you a kill for everyone that gets caught in the blast. The relatively small size of the blast (as compared to the older BFG's) would ensure that not everyone in a decently sized room gets nuked, and the 2 second delay and low ammo count should prevent spamming of the BFG.
Anyway, sorry about the awfully long feedback. But there's my thoughts on the BFG as it stands and what it would be if i had my way. Maybe if i find a decent coder I'll make a small "Better BFG mod" or something. >:)
Thanks for listening.
Lee'Mon: Personally, I was a huge fan of the Q2BFG. Not much beats it. The only place it was completely annoying was in CTF; but then again, it was nowhere near as bad as someone with red armor, the Resistance Rune, and Power Armor with full cells. You could hit them with a Quad Rocket and do 9% damage to their health.
Actually, as I said befor., I've been working with a coder friend of mine, who's trying to bring the BFG10K back into Q3A. If you actually liked the Big Freaking Gun, keep an eye on the PQ news! (Keep an eye on the news anyways; some fantastic mods in the works by all the hosted sites here at PQ!)
Demonwench: Is this guy describing the BFG from Q2? It certainly sounds like it. The guy certainly makes a point that we say quite a lot, if you don't like the game yer playin', go to a different server!!!
Moving right along, it's time for the PQ help desk! Second page time!!
On Page 2: PQ Help Desk!